Welcome to LinuxMedNews
 up a level
 post article
 search
 admin
 Contact
 main


  Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App Languishes
LinuxMedNews Posted by Ignacio Valdes, MD, MS on Thursday October 09, 2008 @ 04:59 PM
from the Linux Medical News dept.
The year of the GNU/Linux desktop has been always right around the corner for many years now. Many have been looking for the 'killer application' that can only be had on GNU/Linux and that will spur widespread adoption of Linux on the desktop. While fast-booting Splashtop desktops look promising, one killer application boldly going where Windows cannot go is languishing. That killer application is... Digg this article

Multi-head, multi-user systems running off a single PC. This is where multiple displays, keyboards and mice can be attached to a single PC with multiple users all working simultaneously from one system unit. This can dramatically lower the cost of an individual workstations as well as the cost to support individual workstations. This setup is becoming more and more viable as hardware power increases. What's more, Windows is much less compelling with this setup since Microsoft is so dependent upon 1 user 1 license to keep its revenue stream going and/or needing 3rd party applications such as Citrix or VMware.

Hospitals need large numbers of workstations to be effectively computerized. A multi-head, multi-user GNU/Linux system would be ideal for deployment in health care settings due to its small footprint and low cost.

Yet it is the author's experience that such a killer application setup is very difficult to achieve with current GNU/Linux. In fact, total failure has so far been the result after many hours of attempts. Two popular distributions and 2 releases of those distributions where attempted: Ubuntu 8.04 hardy heron, Ubuntu 8.10 Intrepid Ibex beta, Fedora 9 and Fedora 10 beta. All failed miserably.

This was not for lack of documentation. In fact, there is so much forum postings and documentation that it is difficult to find relevant information and appears to be mass confusion. What is found is either grossly out of date, applies to old versions of X-Windows or is current and up to date, applies to your distribution but simply does not work. Even more frustrating is the values-compromising nVidia 'restricted' (proprietary) drivers did not work on any of the distributions attempted!

My setup was as follows: AMD sempron processor, ECS motherboard, 1 Gb of RAM, 3 nVidia GeForce FX 5200 PCI video cards. No amount of massaging or configuration could get the video drivers to work with multiple displays. The 'restricted' nVidia drivers resulted in a strangely behaving boot up that failed in the text part of Fedora 9 boot. Ubuntu had other problems that are so far insurmountable. I have so far put at least 20 hours into getting this to work without success.

While Gnome 2.24 is supposed to have built-in support for multi-headed systems, both Ubuntu 8.10 beta and Fedora 10 beta did not have this working on my system.

I have spent countless hours over the last 8 years getting and occasionally succeeding in getting multi-headed displays working with GNU/Linux. The experience has been universally difficult, daunting and time-consuming. What's more is that the parameters for X-windows configuration have changed frequently and dramatically over the years rendering old xorg.conf files, the hard-won documentation of such files and Google searches for information nearly useless shortly after it is created. A current xorg.conf files bears little resemblance to ones that I created a few years ago for my multi-headed system, rendering my previous difficult experience in doing this utterly in vain.

While there is some hope for the future with Gnome 2.24, this does not look as though it will be viable soon. Although this should 'merely' be a software problem, it has so far proven to be a daunting one. This long and painful process of attempting to prototype multi-head, multi-user systems in our hospital may have to be abandoned in favor of further, forced, expenditures on the Windows platform. The year of the GNU/Linux desktop killer application still does not appear to be here.

<  |  >

 

  Related Links
  • Articles on LinuxMedNews
  • Also by Ignacio Valdes, MD, MS
  • Contact author
  • The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them.
    ( Reply )

    Over 10 comments listed. Printing out index only.
    Re: Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App Languishes
    by John Lin on Thursday October 09, 2008 @ 06:35 PM
    It's actually pretty easy now to setup the nVidia drivers. I'm referring of course to how one needed to do so before. The trickiest part is that Ubuntu uses a different environment than I was accustomed from Fedora 6. Make sure you stop the gdm service in the init.d and install the nVidia driver from the command line. Then, rename your xorg.conf file and generate a new one using the nvidia configuration utility. For that matter, the display code for windows has changed dramatically over any given time period. Direct X versions continue to soar. The maximum number of displays that are permitted by default goes up and down and back up. The aspect ratios, orientation, interface, and basic science of the monitors has changed. Too date, I haven't witnessed any programs in the medical field that can't technically work in a Linux environment. Mostly, there is just too much support for proprietary setups. Centricity is just Java, which should work on everything. GE takes steps to ensure it doesn't. Most doctors, like most bankers, just think that's okay. In my last job, we utilized modified dcmtk packages and scripts in Fedora to batch prepare dicom studies with hundreds or in some cases thousands of images each for double blind research studies. The big packaged brands either simply didn't offer these capabilities or were so unstable with large datasets that they posed an unacceptable interruption to clinical functions. While it was a lot of work and time to get setup, we took a process that was taking literally weeks or months, and reduced it to minutes. While I respect the frustration you experienced. Linux isn't always about being cheap and easy. Sometimes, it's about getting the job done... period.
    [ Reply to this ]
    Re: Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App La
    by Vance on Friday October 10, 2008 @ 05:35 AM
    If you want a pre-packaged rather than a DIY solution, take a look at Userful.
    [ Reply to this ]
    Re: Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App Languishes
    by Makere on Friday October 10, 2008 @ 05:48 AM
    Easiest way to install Nvidia drivers on ubuntu is getting Envy; http://albertomilone.com/nvidia_scripts1.html (sudo apt-get install envyng-gtk)
    [ Reply to this ]
    Re: Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App Languishes
    by ryanhaigh on Friday October 10, 2008 @ 07:14 AM
    It was a while ago now but I have been able to set up a multihead-multiuser system quite easily on ubuntu using the userful desktop multiplier software. http://www2.userful.com/products/userful-multiplier There are limitation such as the need for independent graphics cards per display, no 3D etc but my brother and sister stopped fighting over the computer so I was satisfied. I used a nvidia agp and S3 PCI card for graphics which I was suprised to see work so well. While I used it with an older release a quick search indicates the basic 2 seat package is still in the Hardy repos: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/desktop-multiplier I don't think its open source but its free to use (with signup if I remember correctly) for the 2 seat package available in the repos.
    [ Reply to this ]
    If you do not know how to do it, buy it!
    by Fred on Friday October 10, 2008 @ 12:42 PM
    I set up several multihead workstations (not in medical field, more to reduce the power consumption). It requires quite a lot of configuration but it can be done. Well, not with the binary drivers from either Nvidia or ATI.

    But I tested and appreciated the simplicity of setup of Userful Multiplier. It's commercial, it cost money but it works very easily and there is a demo version to test on your hardware :
    http://www2.userful.com/products/userful-multiplier

    NB: I do not work for them and I do not use their products
    [ Reply to this ]
    Re: Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App La
    by Chris Tyler on Saturday October 11, 2008 @ 03:33 AM
    I've been using multiseat systems at my home for over 5 years, and am writing this message on a 4-seat system right now. Configuration of these systems reached a sweet spot a year ago, around the time of Fedora 8; changes to X and GDM and the integration of ConsoleKit and udev have since made this much harder. But the problems are known, and solutions are in the works; multiseat out-of-the-box should be fairly common in the next year (watch Fedora 11/12 :-)
    [ Reply to this ]
    Re: Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App Languishes
    by anonymous on Saturday October 11, 2008 @ 05:45 AM
    You are missing the point all together. Remote X displays over the network is the way that you want to go, not multiheaded 3+ Nvidia card setups. If you need multiple X displays on a machine and they need acceleration, I believe that the latest compositing software on X accelerates even network based X displays and then sends the information to the remote displays for rendering, limiting the amount of display work that main machine would have to do. What you are trying to do would limit you to the number of displays that you can run to the number of open expansion slots that you have in the computer.
    [ Reply to this ]
    Re: Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App Languishes
    by Pablo Pita on Saturday October 11, 2008 @ 01:20 PM
    There are some instructions on how to setup a multiseat computer for Ubuntu at Netpatia's blog as well.
    [ Reply to this ]
    Re: Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App Languishes
    by Roland Latour on Saturday October 11, 2008 @ 10:15 PM
    I used to work for NCD, one of the founders of the X consortium. They made standalone X terminals. They went out of business almost a decade ago, killed by the falling price of PC hardware and the rise of linux. Their little box plus a monitor cost about the same as a PC. The same job is now done by the Linux Terminal server project, ltsp.org.
    [ Reply to this ]
    HP Sold a solution for a while ...
    by Buchan Milne on Monday October 13, 2008 @ 09:59 AM
    In 2003-2005, HP Sold a multi-seat X solution, called the HP 441. This consisted of the hardware (1 PC, 4 monitors, 4 keyboards, 4 mice) running a distribution based on Mandrake 9.1, with slightly customised installer that ensure that the configuration worked out-the-box.

    Sales weren't good enough for the product to move out of the Emerging Markets division at HP before the Emerging Markets division was closed.

    [ Reply to this ]
    Re: Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App Languishes
    by Tiago Vignatti on Tuesday October 14, 2008 @ 06:00 AM
    Care to look at this:

    http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/multiseat-roadmap/
    [ Reply to this ]
    Re: Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App Languishes
    by Ignacio Valdes, MD, MS on Wednesday October 15, 2008 @ 10:08 PM
    I'm going to try out the Multi Display Manager mdm Live CD and report back: http://wiki.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiseat/index.php/Live-CD -- IV
    [ Reply to this ]
    Re: Multi-Head, Multi-User Killer GNU/Linux App La
    by Bob on Monday June 15, 2009 @ 06:51 PM
    This all seems misdirected. You want Thin Clients. You'll scale to a lot more users, less power, less management. See http://www.sun.com/sunray I've been running 5-7 Sun Rays off my workstation for some time now, and it's fantastic. I can move from Sun Ray to Sun Ray and pick up my desktop instantly from where I left off. I happen to be running OpenSolaris but it could just as easily be Linux.
    [ Reply to this ]
    The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them.
    ( Reply )


     
    Google
     
    www.linuxmednews.com Web
    Advertisement: CCHIT certified EMR and Medical Practice Management Software from Medical Software Associates makes patient management easy. Free practice management and medical billing software demo available.
    All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest ©2000-2006 Ignacio Valdes, MD, MS.